Belief and Doubt.

A talk by Eugene Halliday


Note:   Indistinct words or phrases are shown in magenta


Lets put it this way. I or someone else elects to be the doubter.  Cause them.      Now I think their progress will be very slow I'm inclined to think it would be solid....... if you believe then you will keep pace. 

            I imagine being set up in a debate for instance against a good opponent. Many of the things you have said to me I have accepted... because you have said them      Perhaps I wouldn't loose you see...So is it better to be a doubter or a believer?  Only christ said that the lesson is 'He having seen believes and more blessed is he having not seen believes'.  It's a question about time. Energy impulses take time, if you are doubting you are determined to analyse, doubt means doubleness. Consequently you will have to cut everything.


If the other fellow is passive to your questions you cut him to bits using the Socratic method, wont you?. Perhaps look at the Socratic method subject and predicate and the rule in logic is S=P, that is the subject can be exhausted in all its predications. If you say that the total of all the significances thats involved in a subject you have exhausted the subject. So logically we say S=P. Now when we actually come to talk about a given subject we have to speak about the subject analytically. S = predicate 1, that hasn't exhausted, we have analysed something out of it, plus predicate 2, plus predicate 3 the end and so on to.


We have to keep cutting the subject into a series of predicates, but each predicate contains another subject, doesn't it? Because each sentence necessarily has a subject and a predicate, so there is another S=P1 there isn't there, plus P to the  nth. And the same for this one and for this one. But every one of these predicates require a full sentence which has a subject and a predicate, so there's an S=P there, and so does this one.  You can see immediately the meaning of an infinite digression. So doubt means doubleness. Thats the same dub in dubious and double .


If we reduce this to it's fundamental concept we can delete an H out of there. This is the hub of the wheel, there is the ferry, the rim, and it is divided, that's the house, forces radiate from the centre and divide the wheel. Now we can go on doing this with any subject whatever until in fact we completely block the wheel out with definition,  if we don't block it out there is still room for another predicate. What we have when we have blocked it out what we've got is a terribly difficult thing, an analyse hole that now requires a synthesising  which means simultaneous assimilation. The argument is serial. The assimilation of significance must be simultaneous


We can't get the S back by predication P^n without putting S at the end it goes like this in logic  ..see….. thats all. The subject is analysed into predicates to a degree and those are synthesised back into the subject. And if you don't complete the synthetic process all your predication  process has done is cut it to bits and turned you to a schizophree. In fact thats how schizophrenia develops. By doubt, by scepticism, by cutting things to bits. Never the less the product of other peoples doubt is very very useful to people who don't know. When Thomas put his finger in the wounds of christ, that he put his finger in that hole, convinced the others that they weren't wrong to believe. Yet they were not doubters. Some of them were afraid to doubt. Afraid to come to ??? doubt.


Descartes starts off with the very principle,  philosophically saying  I will be quite sure that I know what I know by doubting all things. When he said this, it threw him back on something he couldn't doubt. In when he said to himself I am saying something, he couldn't doubt that. Then he formulated doest ?......?ending.    “I think therefore I am”. That is a bad bit of logic too, because to say I think therefore I am is really to equate “to think” and  “am”. The two differences in the predicates which must be resolved and synthesised in the “I”, so really it is saying that every observer necessarily has in it thinking and being, and that is already posited in observer. If it exists.


Descartes didn't notice he had done this until he became a dualist, as you'd expect from a man named Descartes, who starts from the cards blank and finishes up with the cards. So doubt is very very useful, its a very very good instrument for cutting into the arguments of people to test them and see whether they doubt it. And provided that they don't understand this elementary logic presented by this creation you can shake them where they are shaken using a purely Socratic method. When they make a statement “S” and you say it has a subject and a predicate and you question to define the subject and each predicate. And unless they have infinite knowledge they will find they cannot tie the predication together and litigate the subject. So doubt is a tool for cutting into things, for defining, so doubt is the Devil


{Question}???? Your to ideas only going to cut yourself  up ???   

{Halliday}You cut yourself to bits.

Now it is a fact that if you doubt any thing whatever about your own capacities you introduce error into them. Suppose a person learning to play the piano doubts there ability to play a certain passage, the doubt is fed into the nervous system and the result is bad fingering, and the same with a man learning to sing or run or swim or something like that. If a man is diving and doubts as he leaves the board that is going to make a perfect jackknife, it won't be a perfect jackknife. Because the only way you can get the form you want is absolute unity. You want ?.none of decent..?. You must have in your mind one only idea if you wish to express one idea


because whatever you put in the mind will tend to move into the emotive centres and then into the body. So if you doubt, that means you are presenting yourself with a double content and your energy splits and you become inefficient. So it has no use today for a man who is trying to integrate himself.    But has use if you are trying to expose the disintegration of another man. Socrates had no doubt whatever that he new that other people were not immune to statements of doubt. So he used this method of analysis of doubling up on the questions all the time. And the simple equation  that if a man is not infinitely stopped with predication his subject will come to an end but if it is infinitely stopped he is talking to God, in fact , because only God is infinite in his predication.


So as far as doubt is concerned you can say it is very very useful for testing situations but its no use at all for a man who is trying to integrate his will.


{Question} When does belief become knowledge    ??? some doubter comes along and you believe a thing and they doubt it and you want to express your belief clearly and you can't do it, you can't clearly-


You can't express it.


Yes you cant express it clearly.


That is not a question of belief, it a question of the power of expression. That means you need more work on your vocabulary on the formal side of your knowledge. It doesn't mean anything else. Remember a scientist does not know anything. He only believes certain things. In fact modern science is built on statistical probability. No one of distinction claims that it “ is “ he only claims  that it is probable.


The laws of probability are built on a very very simple series of experiments, times  plus times to one that this thing must happen again. Because in fact there is no certainty whatever that in a material universe all the particles of which are in motion and no particle is fixed from which to make an observation. Hence they go for statistical probability theories in modern times. There is no fact other than a long series of observations  collated and the similarities drawn out then mathematical processes applied to them to produce out of it no more than a probability. If I toss a coin into the air, is it likely to fall down heads or tails?  Assume for one moment the weight on both sides is equal, the possibility of it falling heads or tails are equal.


Now if I toss it up once fall down and comes up heads. If I pick up the same penny and do it again. Is it more likely than the first time that it will come down heads? It isn't, its exactly the same. Because it is the same there is no reason to assume that it will fall down heads again


{Question} can I ask if I concentrate on getting heads though...


Thats an entirely different thing, you are now talking about magical interference and science isn't interested in that. In fact if it were to exist then science would become impossible. It's a magician sitting about willing electrons to suddenly become positrons and the centre of the atom to disperse and go to the perimeters only you would be wasting your time under the microscope and various other measuring devices. The whole order of the universe is the basis of science.


Unless there is a rigid order of some kind science is impossible. No rigid order is known other than this mathematical statistical one by the scientists. When we come to the question of doubt we can see that to doubt is simply to introduce division because that will present you with two ideas simultaneously about the same subject. So it necessarily splits and nervous energy in you transmits in two different directions so if you try and to do a thing with doubt in your mind, say take this chalk and try it between the bars of some railings or something. if you doubt it you will feel something is wrong the moment you release in in doubt. And something will go wrong with the soul. The whole meaning of Zen Buddhism is the elimination of doubt.


You are not even allowed to thing about it because thinking is doubting. Remember the diagram we have done before....... of the thinking process  as the word think....... If we change the “k” to a hard “g” we get thing. Now thinking is thing'ing in the mind. So now if we draw a figure of eight and put k up there and hard g down there and shade this one in because the hard g is the Geh In the greek the earth the material and K being an un-voiced consonant means it is on the intellectual side. This is the realm of ideas and this the realm of gross material facts.


So if we look with our sense organs into the gross material world we see Geh,  earth, thing. If we look into the mind at the form without the gross matter we call it think. So T which is a masonic sound point, 'Th' in Geh. This 'Th' and or looks more like an ampersand. This is the origin of the 'Th' the temple-Jerusalem, the temple of Jerusalem from the masons. Here we have the origin of the three t's which are simply laid on the periphery of the circle and three radii. Now 'Th' means time and eternity. Now remember what we said about the greek alphabet that the old form of writing the fifth letter of the alphabet is that....


and in english is that...these two letters are interchangeable, in the Hebrew the fifth letter is an 'hey' like that  and would be used to represent this vowel just like that this sound would be in the greek. So this means time and this means eternity, and the whole process is involved here and when that process is made darkened by intensification and overlapping of energies that is the making gross of the subtle. Lets look at the indian analyses now, the soul, the mind and the body. We'l put an 'S' in there for subtle, a 'G' in there for gross, and 'C' in there with a little circle to to remind us it's K for causal. The soul here is causal.


All mental structures whatever are subtle and your body is gross. Thats very very important to realise this. When we're talking In western philosophy about causation we're talking about the linear series, where one thing strikes another and the shock is passed along the chain. Thats linear causation, and is an occidental concept that springs out of an extrovert mind. Occidentally to strike the table (bangs table) is to introduce a cause. But the oriental concept of causation is totally different. The orientals say the cause is in the field, an atom does not move because another atom hits it but because the field of the atom changes. In fact modern science has been forced into exactly that same conclusion.


Because, if we take an electron we know that it has a field around it and in fact two of those electrons cannot come together because of the field forces between them, they repel each other. So the cause of the repulsion is in the field not in the electron. So you see the real theory of causation   is not a linear series in the material world which is entirely a materialistic concept, hitting its high peak in the nineteenth century, but the causal is essentially non dual.  I'm going to draw line over there now.  The soul has no parts, it is not a compound. A material body is a compound and a subtle body, namely idea complex is also a compound. So this is the realm of the compounded here the body and the mind, this is non compound. .


      I'll put non-K in there.  Nonk, thats a nice word isn't it.    So we know that the cell eternal simply because it has no parts. What has no parts cannot come to bits what cannot come to bits is not Martel because marten means disintegrating but the physical body can and does fall to bits very easily, and the body of ideas falls to bits not so easily. If a motor bus hits your body it breaks to bits very very easily. It doesn't break your ideas so very very easily. Very deep ideas are not even removed by a brain injury. Though your latest impressions can be removed very easily by a blow causing concussion. And the deeper beliefs you have are very hard to eradicate. So the more subtle a compound is the more power, the greater resistance to disintegration.


The soul, not being a compound which is eternal and not being a compound is infinite. Being infinite is omnipresent. The soul is an enclitic channel  omnipresent.  The mind is a product of the relationship between the bodies and the soul.   We'll draw another line here.   The mind is now mediating which is non-compounded and the gross body. This represents the devil and this represents god. Not in his fatherhood sense but in the logos sense. The mind function here is to carry stimuli from the body and bring them  up to the soul who will then give orders about them back to the material world. So in the mind there is a continuous circulation of stimulus reaction.


 The afferent and efferent Cloro of the neural-impulses going on all the time.

We have these three interpenetrating schemes which are separated out here. If we wish to ( paper rustle) Here is the mind. Here is the gross body GB or Great Britain. Where there is more bodies than one there is external stimulation. Physical reaction of the external sense organ like the eyes reacting to the light then the carrying inwards into the mind along the nerves in the brain to nerve centres, the presentation of the resultant to the soul, and the giving the orders by the soul back through the mind to the body.


We remember when a rotation occurs we can never go to the dead centre. It has to come out again never having filled in the centre so it makes always an actual value continuously ingoing and outgoing and that empty part in the middle is the soul where it is pure spirit. The thick skin on the orange, here, represents the gross material world, the pulp of the orange represents the mind, and the hidden space in the seed represents the soul itself. And yet that soul energy goes right out as we've said before, the spirit imminent in the soul, spirit transcendent, is continuously flowing out and back. And that is the feel of the whole structure. So your gross physical body and your mental body, your subtle body of ideas, are all inside a field and it is that field that is causative.


Now lets have a look at the theory of evolution (paper noise, new drawing?) in relation to this. We said that the western idea of evolution is that you can keep pulling things out of the bag that were never put into it. The idea that somehow there are qualities that are emerging that were not there, that matter, which is not intelligent somehow by conjoining together accidentally produces intelligence. So intelligence is stated to be some thing that was not in the original situation. We find another subject and predicate.  Every seed produces a plant, and the plant produces a seed.... and so on in an infinite cycle.  If the plant were not involved in the seed, the seed could never become a plant.


 It the plant did not involve itself in seeds and then scatter them it could never propagate it's kind. So that an endless cycle from seed, plant, seed, plant, seed. This also is semen if you like and this is a person exactly the same thing comes for every form of life comes out of either an egg or a seed. It isn't a piece of wood or a stone that gives birth to a baby, its the seed of a man. So the man evolves into a seed and the seed evolves into a man. So every E or Ex-Volition. Vol, means will and the out-willing presupposes an involution.

Now lets draw this again, here is the world of the soul, here is the world of gross matter


This one of the esoteric meanings of the number eight. This soul enters into the gross world. circulates through it and goes out again. Now here is involution and at the bottom point here is where the materialist scientist starts to examine it and he says there is gross matter with no intelligence. But really the intelligence of the soul here has obscured itself with its own activity. I can obscure the form of my hand by shaking it. How many finger have I now? If I shake it very fast you cant tell what i've got that is exactly the same obscuration that there is of the soul. The soul is by no sense touched by action. The form of my hand doesn't change by shaking it never the less it is obscured to the vision.


 So this is action setting up there by getting grosser and grosser in layers, thats quite fine, thats the intellect point in matter with the soul above it, that's the budi of the  Hindus. And here's the marinas, indiras, sense organs and the gross body  When we come down to  exactly to the gross material part of the scientist then because he is an extrovert and empiricist he starts here and says insentieve matter evolves and produces intelligence. He's giving you half of a process and is being quite illogical because he arbitrarily starts at the gross material world. He knows for a fact that gross matter is force, rotating, but because of a certain bias to do with profound negativism in the world that dominate the external situation he prefers to start down there and say there was no intelligence.


 This is the voice of Julian Huxley, blind nature working for countless millions of years produce Julian Huxley. (Chuckle) That was a radio statement. He then said altering the diagram a little bit “If blind nature can produce Julian Huxley think what Julian Huxley can do”. (Chuckle) Thats because he started there and we know for a fact that there is no motion in the universe that is not cyclic. Rectilinear motion is is an abstract idea, it does not exist. Therefore to start there is entirely arbitrary. We have to start with intelligence, even the scientist has to or else he is not a scientist. Then he has to put his intelligence into the material situation down to the lowest point in the gross material


Then he must proceed to explain to himself, how it became organised, but organisation means intelligence, there is no organ, no working entity other than an intelligent one. If I put dots above here ( banging ) my natural sense of rhythm might start putting order in. If I put them down haphazardly then I can say that is chaos. And by deliberately knowing the fact that I did it to demonstrate chaos I must cut out my own intelligence. Then stare at it and pretend that I don't exist, then I can say thats chaos. That's senseless, there's no meaning in it. To say that I must eliminate myself. So the scientist when he eliminates himself from the universe, postulates an abstract state of the universe gross material without himself in it and then proceeds is to try to build up a theory that accounts for the appearance of his own brilliance, first having rubbed it out nonetheless by shining itself as a dirty glow.


 Put a G on the bottom to make sure it's gross one. And finally we rub off the first  less and don't mention it lets start with this and get this. I have now improved. Now the whole object of western culture is to improve, and you must have a concept like this to improve. Start from there and keep going round. The idea that it is a cycle implies possible degeneration, and here we cannot degenerate, we can only go on improving and improving and improving, improving. The fact that some old men that were brilliant become idiots, it's just them, their special cases. The fact that innocent babies become very very cunning old men. And so on. All the factual cycles of the universe have to be ignored in order to postulate that there is a insentient non intelligent gross matter which climb up and become its shining itself explaining to itself how it managed to emerge from unintelligence.


So every evolution presupposes an involution and the involution is going on all the time. Suppose we take the period of the sorians, the great lizards. A force of life was lizard'ing in to matter and after it had gone round it came out and said I'm bored with lizard'ing and stopped. There's always a little period of quiescence in between phases, in the record of the rocks, there are little blank layers. There's a period when life does nothing except rest and rumble and think to itself, funny things those lizards I've made. What shall I make next? In-between thinking what funny thing those lizards and what shall I make next he doesn't make anything, he's just quiescent, that is the prowline state of the indian philosophers.


 He's just lying down and musing  on its livid bit exercise and adds nothing to it again because, well, it takes off, it's enjoyment. Next time it's going to enter it's going to make something else, something really clever. And each time it has built an organism it has sort to make an organism that it would have to give up. In other words it has tried to make a perfect vehicle that it will never have to give up. And the best job it has done so far is human being and if the human being should turn out to be a lounge lizard it will have to be eliminated. And after 20,000 million human beings on earth today most of them are considered by this self un-saveable.


Thats to say they are going to be eliminated in a series of catastrophic wars. We're running towards one now and there's no attempt on the part of the vehicles to stop this process, except in the odd spots here and there. If people can understand that the cause of all conflict down here is the search of the life force for the perfect vehicle and until it gets that perfect vehicle it's going to destroy vehicles. When the vehicle is eventually made perfect there will be no need to destroy it because it will be absolutely responsive to the will of the soul. That is the statement in the new testament “then we shall be made perfect”. And another word used for it is “whole”, which means we have resynthesised analysed the whole process of evolution and regained the “S” with which we started. So the soul posits forms and gathers them together and states the soul.


 This process goes on and on in the attempt to make the perfect vehicles, and when the perfect vehicle is made it will be retained. And until it is made it will be considered expendable.

(paper rattling) 

Now lets go to “Finnegan's  Wake” for a moment.  Ken wanted me to deal with this but it's a little long really for an hours talk. Joyce was trying to do something inside himself with it. And what he was trying to do can be done, but when it is done a man is resynthesised into his original whole.


We know that poetry differs from prose not by the fact, which isn't a fact very often, that there is a rhyme in it either at the end or internally, but because poetry is tremendously condensed. In order to fit in a thought to a line of a particular length a poet has to take his ideas and hammer them together and force particular words to do many many duties. So, lets take the word  Finnegan to begin with, thats a nice irish name. (drawing) Now you know thats the word for end, and thats the word for negation, and thats the word for a goose, whence we get gander. So this says 'end no goose'.


Now Joyce knew this and he was trying to integrate by becoming awake (drawing) to gently because he was trying to generate something. He knows the end is no goose, we change end to “N” because the “N” and name are the same. We hope. Because the end, that is where the arrow falls on the spot that we aimed at and this goose or gan which is euphemistic with a vowel change symbolising a migrating bird doesn't it? (drawing) Migrating bird. Now the indian, the sanskrit word the hunter means either a goose or a swan. You find it in celtic mythology as part of the trinity as the early christian church where there's a fool, a salmon and a goose.


The goose was chosen for the symbol of the soul because it migrates. From thwart. The pure soul is represented by the goose. Now there is no stupidity in the final aim because the goose is very fond of walking behind other geese. You know that geese are supposed to be stupid according to the ways human beings look at things, they hiss like serpents and they walk behind each other in a line. They have formation when they migrate. Whiteness symbolises their purity, that they follow each other means the same thing as one soul following another into bodies.


One of the old indian illustrations of reincarnation is a wheel as in fairgrounds a wheel with little boxes on, you see then at Blackpool and elsewhere. Now the image they use is a box, goes down there, and the soul jumps in the box and the wheel turns. Invented by a man called Ferris, because of the felling process here and the pillar function. This soul is carried up and that little box comes down here another soul gets in. All the boxes are full and it rotates and as each one goes round it gets to the bottom each one gets out . So we have an image of a soul incarnating in a body and anybody looking at the wheel can predict the exact life cause of one of the carriages going round


But he cannot say what the soul is doing in the box when it's at the top, which is why most people go in it. The soul is free to do what it likes inside the box. The materialist scientist and the predictive of body behaviour is concerned with the material body going round and round and cannot predict the soul's subjective attitude to the whole thing. Neither does he know where the soul goes when it steps out of the box. The conservation of energy in the material universe guarantees a continuous supply of boxes and the souls incarnating in them get the experience out of them. Now there is no end to the cycle of the wheel but there's a period of quiescence when the whole universe winds into potentiality and dreams about what it's been doing before it start up and does it again.

[38m 03s]

 So let us say every soul is a goose and that there is no end to the cyclic process. And if you wake up and realise just precisely what it is that makes you get on the wheel and go round you'l know what to do when you get up there there's something that makes you get into the box, go to the top of the wheel where nobody can see you, then you come down again smiling broadly thinking it's a secret. And all round you others coming up to have the same secret. And it's precisely this that pays the money in through the wheel turning. Buddha said it was thirst, tum-ma, thirst for life that kept the wheel turning. There’s a man there who'l keep putting petrol in it to keep  turning it, or pressing the electric switch to keep it going.


  If you keep putting money in his pocket to buy his din-din, so he has the strength to pour the petrol in. So its an endless merry-go-round with the souls getting on, and they keep going round and round until they realise it isn't a secret. They had a profoundly egotistical purpose and they said “lets get in this box and go up there and do a secret thing”. In the same way now another means this one. The wheel is down below and the souls are above. They say lets go down there where nobody can see because in the realm of the soul there is no  plurality whatever. So whatever is know is known absolutely, so you cant have a secret.  At the point of contact between the intellect here and the soul. As the intellect is a determinative faculty it tells you that there are secret possibilities down there, so the soul thinks i'll have a secret, why should I be known always as clever,


So it dives into the  dark and performs secret activities and it goes on days until it finally discovers everybody else is doing precisely the same secret activities so it egotistically says if they are going to do it I'm not. And it gives it up and comes out of the wheel and won't pay any more money and says it's beyond that now and goes away. It's now called an Evor.  So it's turned itself out of the wheel it's gone in and come out. Now in this Finnegan's Wake idea this fundamental concept on that entrance of the soul into manifestation, its self obscuration by its own activity. Nothing obscures yourself but your own process. In fact nothing obscures my hand but my waving it. You stimulate your own mind and produce ideas and completely obscure your own nature and then you wonder who you are.


As you're looking at a product of your own activity and so long an you look at the product you are looking at P^n, not at S. you are only looking at predication so you can never find what the term is, what the subject is by examining the predicate. Because at the end of the equation you must write = S again. You must remember the subject with which you started and that means a good memory. So that when people enter into manifestation the obscuration gives them a bad memory, they forget who they are and the presentations of their own activities in their own minds fascinates them. This is the myth of narcism, looking into the waters of your own mind to see what a lovely lad I am. And refusing to listen to anything whatever outside. So it goes on and progressively obscures itself. And we've said before that if the will were always to get a pleasure out of experience it would go down and do it again forever.


 So if the whole of this wheel were pleasurable nobody could get out. Luckily for us the wheel is sometimes painful, we put a negative there, climbs up into the head and becomes shining intelligence.

Only out of negation can thought grow. So only out of the experience of pain can this soul, which has obscured itself, become aware of the  foolishness of its self obscuration. Finnegan Wake is about this process. And no goose, the goose is supposed to be a fool, but in fact, before entrance into this process the soul is an un-analysed whole, a whole that doesn’t know it's parts because it hasn't actually parted.


It is a non synthetic whole. Then it participates a duality, I like it and I don't like it. And then it tries to embody for itself  the things in gross matter the things it likes and it tries to stop the things it doesn't like from getting into manifestation. Bit pluses and minus, yes and no presuppose each other. They stand or fall together. So when it postulates pleasure it postulates fear of the loss of pleasure with it.  Here is the soul part-less, it doesn’t even know its a soul part-less until it posits pleasure/pain. This is the Adam-ic fall. Involves itself in the gross material world subjects itself to experience and after lots of dodging it finally comes to believe it can only obtain its initial freedom by the negative or painful process.


But what it gains when it gets back is it's original wholeness plus the memory of the plus/minus and the gross material fact. And when it has evolved into itself in reflective self consciousness the imagery of the whole cycle then in mutatesance balance he shall go no more out.


And in buddhist parlance he will gain Nirvana and will manifest no more.

The whole process is to be reflectively aware. But once the soul passes, not even knowing its a soul initiated pleasures and initiated pain necessary with them went down to get the pleasures and avoid the pain found that directly they could not be got and that the pain drobedat to realise that it had  itself had involved itself and that when the process of self involvement is realised completely the work of the soul is finished. The whole of the work f the mystics of all times is simply the realisation that we have obscured ourselves with the pleasure pursue, tried to  throw out the pain side of it, which is illogical, were forced through material experience into the painful side and then regained


So here we are. You see there the mystical signs ( paper rattle) from the Hermes. Here is the letter H in Egyptian hieroglyph. We'll turn it this way up because we want the tails to go into infinity and we will say going down on the pleasure pursuit into the gross material world and finding it painful requiring bat             {Tape change ?}

[46m51s]  ( tape change?)

The evolutionary process is now finished. There is now no more work to be done in any philosophical or religious system in the world other than the recognition of this fact. The semicircle represents infinity and the inherent dualism in the absolute, namely the potential of the four, the potential of manifestation, the potential of differentiation, so one hoar is a potential plus and the other a potential minus. The potential minus became matter and the potential plus became intelligence. There we are the intelligence going down meeting the material world, finding it painful, climbing up to self realisation. And at the top end the negative now means self control. To negate oneself. Therefore at the highest level the hebrew name for the absolute  is the Kiensor negation wisdom.


Usually they translate it as the imitable wisdom because they do not know what to do with this word. Really it means negation, the Ayin the hebrew letter goes like that, means I wont. I know what not to do. Therefore as Gatama said when you reach that stage you are in Ne-Nirvana, you see, now this word Varma is the same as vain, it means the going serpent this here is a negation. No goal. It is the state beyond Ravana, beyond raging desire. Ravana is a raging desire-ful serpent. Nee is a negation. Neer is the negation of the differentiation. So Gatama is talking about the entrance to manifestation through, thirs, or thrust, the pleasure.


The climbing out through the recognition of the law that all is suffering and the realisation of the supreme negation of nirvana. So the first word of the absolute is 'no', put it there. And we'll draw it in the form of a Yantra and put the 'n' inside it. We'll let that 'n' represent a mythra if we put the N this way it represents the letter Z. this is a zeal, excessive activity. Shakespeare calls it the 'thou whore-some letter Zed, thow unnecessary letter' ( King Lear 2.2) meaning the zealous approach isn't necessary. There is a gentle way of getting your own way, it just takes longer.


And in it's continuity of motion bears upon the eternal serpent with tail in mouth. You can then see the whole process is represented in this OM or no-drama as the japanese call it. We have simply to do this.

The infinite already has the potential of ????? place. Because the potential is there it tends to actualise itself. That produces the soul. At the low in  the  soul its vibrations are not quite so fast as they are here. It begins to formulate. Now all these formulations are in the subtle body. They begin to condense and make the gross body. So inside our own body we have infinity.


The tabula rasa of the scleratics the plain sheet of the soul, deviation, mentation, the changing process of sorts. Then the gross becoming dense, of the thought processes and the cause is in the soul. Thats pretty said to be causes because it's beyond the circle. Which is beyond causation. And the spirit in the soul which comes from it flowing in and out to maintain the conjunction is beyond causation because the soul has not yet parted therefore it is not subject to dissolution. The only things subject to dissolution are compounds of actions. That which is compounded can disintegrate. There is no matter in the universe that is not simply action.


Matter is action and the compounds of action can disintegrate most quickly from the gross end, not quite so quickly from the subtle body, not at all from the soul because it isn't compounded.

St Paul says first the physical body and then the spiritual one. He calls the spiritual body the 'body of ideas'  because the word spirit Roua in the hebrew means hinti whereas we use the word spirit for this absolute; considering that all the form that is actualised in the intellect is eternally in the absolute. Nothing new under the sun. Nothing new can emerge, the absolute contains all possible motion compounds in continuous simultaneous play They are serialised at the level of the intellect as thought processes.


Though first the physical body and then the spiritual body. What did he mean  by that, to meant to say that we are born as gross material bodies and inside is a soul, innocent. It would be innocent if it hadn’t been born before, as it is it's forgotten most of what it knew before, except how to drink milk, and things like that. And one gross body strikes another there's a reverberation to it and that reverberation is the gross material which when the motions, gross motions, die down and become finer are called thoughts. Thats thing and thats think.

Now you know it's a psychological fact thats there's no difference between the quality of the  initial stimulus and the quality of that same thing using the memoth.


If I look at that globe up there at the light and and close my eyes I see light. And the light that I see is simply the after motion of the light that I have seen. So whatever it's quality was its still here in the memory only less intense, and fine. So this is the world of fine forms and this is the world of gross forms.

Now the bible says there are two deaths, the death of the physical body and the death of the subtle body. Or as Paul calls it the spiritual body. And it says the person who integrates himself perfectly shall not suffer the second death. Now the soul can incarnate into the gross body, if it behaves itself and becomes a chemist it that will harm him back.


And it can climb up again and integrate into the mind and go up this happens more often than we realise. The soul frequently goes into the mind and investigates ideas and never applies ????? intellectual who knows all sorts wonderful things and never does anything about it this soul will just energise the  intellect and nothing happens till tomorrow. Also the soul ???  Now remember the insulation diagram the soul going matching the whole process the soul can rip out the intellect ??? the gross material body ???  ( the above section is down in the background noise)


Make a wonderful body and put the soul action in the body without disturbing the inter. Now the gross physical body dies first, now thats easier. Thats not an option we'll be using every day.  I suppose its possible to die in the mind before your body's dead. Usually the body dies first and it tends to do so. So when the body disintegrates, and death means disintegration, nothing else. So all the soul has left for a vehicle is the body of ideas, the spiritual body. Now if the body of ideas is badly integrated it also begins to form bits. This is what Gurdjieff was talking about souls scrambling for bodies. Theosophical accident bodies at the time.  The idea that there is a subtle body, a body of ideas and when one soul has learned the lesson of that idea body he will give it up.


He will just say i'm not interested like when he's giving up his gross physical body when it becomes too painful.

When the gross external world ceases to pay off many a soul without a disease in the body withdraws from the body and dies. And many another person with a badly damaged body with a will to keep in it will keep it going because he will to use it. Gurdjieff kept his body going after a very bad crash because he willed to use it. When it became not worth he he withdrew. So the subtle body, the body of ideas here, just like the gross physical body is discarded and the physical body begins to disintegrate fairly rapidly. So this body of ideas when the soul has lost interest is released in the subtle world and then other souls who have not finished and their own bodies were disintegrated seeing this nice body and buy residence, feeling a sympathy towards, it they gather round it and they try to get into it like sperms getting into an ovum.


And the one with the strongest similarity with it gets into it, and the others are all very annoyed because they wanted to get into it.

So evolution goes on in the gross physical body. The thing body is paralleled in the think body. And just in the same way people scramble for the distribution of the gross material body. Grovers and things. So that our discarded souls here , or souls with inferior integration who would love to own that body, and the moment it is discarded by a soul who has now seen the truthlesness of further experience, not the truthlessness of experience. The truthlessness of further experience. The body is then released then other souls try to get into it.


When you look at a lot of sperm banging at a ovum without any consideration for each other each one determined to get in yet the ovum has the capacity, the peculiar capacity to keep them all out . No individual sperm has the power to penetrate the wall of the ovum. But the ovum has a wonderful sensitivity which tell it which is knocking loudest. For where the loudest knock comes  it opens up and it goes in.

In the same way the souls who have enough resonance in them to produce a response inside here and who attack the subtle body with all they’ve got. That subtle body by resonance opens up to the most resonant knocker. And that soul has got this body


This ties up with what we've said about can various souls work in one body. It is known for twins, or identical twins where two sperms may  equal in their intensity, they may penetrate one egg and in the same way two souls may be so similar in resonance, probably through working together and relating together that they manage to penetrate the same subtle body at the same time. And they find themselves in the lovely harmony that boys and girls like to think they will enjoy at some future. The perfect harmony of two bodies or two souls in one body.

When that body is brought to that state of perfect integration the soul has in it the memory of the whole process. And it has involved the memory of the gross and the subtle, thing and the think


and the think into the original Th …....Looks like a frowning man  because he'd had some experience.... so you see the whole process is a very very simple one represented on this inverted Egyptian hieroglyph of the  'H”

(Question) Can you say something on the causal from that which that is not causal?

To understand what is causal and what is not. Remember that  this, that in causa means to strike to apply a force. So the concept of causation is necessarily a dual concept, it requires two. A force applied and something to apply it to. Consequently there can be no application of the term cause

in the non finite. The infinite is the non finite. Finite means limited and infinite means not limited.


Causation requires a finite object to be struck by a finite force. Therefore causation is an inferior concept to the infinite. So you should never think in terms of causation when you are trying to solve

problems of the absolute . The absolute is entirely beyond causal relation. If you try to apply clausal concepts to the absolute you will start an infinite regression. Wanting to know what caused that one , caused that one. You have to realise that the word in finite means not finite, that causation applies. By the meaning of the word means strike. Only to finites. A finite object receiving a finite force. And therefore the infinite is beyond the concept of causality.


And where the soul becomes conscious of its infinity, the soul also goes beyond the causal relation and becomes itself the top cause.

Before it is aware of it the stimulus from the body reverberates through the gross body, through the mind and causes identification. By catching the attention of the soul which is unconsciously released by reverberation in the first place through the mind and into the body. Now you know that this must go on because no stimulus from the material world can cause you to react if you will not attend. You are all sitting on chairs. Before I mentioned it you are not aware that you have to steer it. When you put your mind to it you are immediately aware of  concessions that were not in your mind. You have turned with your soul towards it because it directed us  as given.


If you will to ignore it and stare repeatedly at a corner of the room it will disappear again. In other words the power of the soul is the cause of the initial identification. First with the idea then with the gross material corresponding activity but once the identification with the physical body is fixed then every physical body there is roundabout touching it causes the soul to believe that it is suffering. Suffering means to be in passive relation to the stimulus.

The object is to stop suffering and become actualising . Suffer and activity. The active and the passive are opposite. Where you are suffering it means the stimulus is hitting you and you can't do anything about it. When you do do something about it it is no longer suffering. You have turned the passive into the active.


It then starts climbing back and then you discover this non linear, this non western causality concept. The western one says that gross material bodies hit on each other and start chain reactions. The western analysis of mental processes says that mental processes are simply the result of molecular changes in  the brain.

Many many things they cannot account for because. How can the molecular changes in the brain of the parents involve themselves on the chromosomes and genes of an egg. When in fact analysis has reveals that no parts in there are able to respond in that complicated and instinctive manner.

The complex instinctive behaviour patterns inborn in animals, like the chicken running away from the shadow of a bird that might drop on him is a sign that intelligence has involved itself already in the gross material body.


Occidental science says that the instinct is transmitted and any causation  from body to body and that mental processes are simple molecular vibrations in the brain. But that doesn’t add up to intelligence at all. No amount of vibration on non sentient matter can add up to intelligence. All these vibrations are inside the soul, and at the top level of the material of the fine body where the intellect is there is a fine process at the soul in identification with ann use to issue an order. There's a continuous up-flow and down-flow, and the mini causation of the west occurs in the subtle body when one idea chases another by association.


We call it a train or chain of associations. Because if we say cat, dog they tend to come into your mouth. Whatever word you hear tends to set up a linear reaction. And thats the western causation.

But the oriental one says all these things are mechanical and don't need to happen. The soul can insert a command 'stop'. To the linear causation in the gross material body. My hand is going through space and I say stop, and it stops. For some people you say stop and it goes on because they’re not gathered together. They’re all sorts of exercises you can do to test your own power to interfere with your soul in a physical act or a mental act. In a physical act you may have an itch. When it comes you try one by sitting down and being very quiet then you will find an itch. (laugh)


And when you feel it don't scratch it and notice how tense you become. And see whether you have the soul power to resist and see how intense it becomes. If you have the power to defeat an itch which I started to will see its a little pinch in you,  to do something about. If you can control a little external itch, you might control an internal itch or an idea. If you can control all the ideas and order them, integrate them into an intellectual concept, a cosmic logos then the soul becomes aware again of the central infill its origin, The whole process then takes on the form of a causal relation, not linear on the earth plane.


But the enveloping and the field energies into the mind and into the gross body always the field going into the mind or the gross material body producing changes from the field. To become aware

 that your feeling is the means whereby you discover you are a soul is very important. Feeling is field consciousness. If you relax on a bed in the dark and you are perfectly relaxed then you will not know what shape your body is. It is beginning to become infinite. That is not finite, that is not limited, i'm certain of that. If you contract a muscle you suddenly become aware of it. If you relax it then you loose it and you become field conscious.


If in a dark room you lie down and try to feel the room instead of your own body you'l begin to feel little  precipitations where articles of furniture are. If you go to edges of the  walls you will begin to feel those. If you're doubtful that you're think you're merely thinking about it. If instead of thinking about it you will feel it. If you then feel beyond the edges of the room and there's somebody in the next room, you will begin to feel the movements and the moods of those people. And when you become aware of the moods and feelings of other beings inside your field you will just count them as other bodies in your field, in other words your bodies elsewhere. And if you go on doing that exercise spreading it out you will discover that the whole universe shrinks into a point. The universe looks very very big to a scientist examining gross matter


It looks very very small to the man who becomes field conscious and deliberately extends it to include the earth, the solar system, the sidereal system and so on. If that causes doubt to enter, start with something you can believe in like feeling somebody in the next chair with your eyes closed. Feeling the breathing of somebody in the other side of the room. Feeling somebody in the next room and so on. As your feeling awareness becomes more and more conscious it gradually becomes the power because our feel is infinite of precipitating theres another body instead of activating this body this soul can begin to activate this body. This raises an ethical question ' should you?'

If you start trying to manipulate this body and ignore this body you may become engrossed in this body and someone will take this body away and bury it. So you have to be very very careful.


I  actually knew a man who aid this and he nearly got buried because he was away for a fortnight

being in an exercise so his wife nearly buried him. I think there was some money involved. Anyhow luckily he'd warned a few friends to take care of him. But it is really astonishing in very early stages

when you are not afraid, its essential not to be afraid as fear precipitates you back into the material world but its the secure world. Remember the gross world has a purpose, it gives you a security  at first. It allows you to build up a system of ideas then you can transfer when your idea system is big enough the accent of the soul from the gross world  the physical body to the subtle world like spiritual bodies Paul says. Then you think your security is in ideas. But when you've integrated that

you think your security in in that diagram.


Then when you have absorbed that diagram you think it's in that diagram rubbed out. Which it is. Which is the original state of the soul. You are then ready to confess your infinity without trembling. Because you now have a reference, a memory of the gross and the subtle and the causal.

This is the direction of evolution. The infinite has obscured itself by self obscuration in souls, subtle bodies, gross bodies and those bodies it manages to refine by experience of the disintegrating subtle bodies so that they become reflective souls. It wishes to befriend it to keep as support. 'His eyes on the sparrow, I know he watches me'. So when we examine the concept of the involution and the infinite into the gross material finite then we can see how the physical scientists consider that evolution from the finite is possible to infinite possibilities.


 The evolution from gross material non intelligent  matter in the nineteenth century to ever widening possibilities of progress is optimism. That is to say it's a search for the outcome but it is only true if you state the previous idignantia, which then shows you the way out.

Now have we any particular questions that could be clarified?

If you can't formulate your experiences  clearly then they’re not… haven’t gained the…... thats a problem then. You must be able to intimately turn your experiences into words, remember word means order.


Lets do some more.   ( changes chart sheet)

We’ve done this before and we will  do it again because repetition will then in engrave it. Look at the goal in the middle of it. Thats ought. When Joyce was writing this book he looked at that, thats gold, and he looked at that and said thats two Vs, two volitions. And two forces intersecting produce an entity. So W means an entity. So theres an entity of gold divided. Gold means the supreme value. Lets draw gold as a Yantra or this is R, believe it or not... thats R. thats vibrating all the time.


Rrrrrrrrr  So a worrrrd (Thats vice cups centurion).  is a zone of differentiating activity, an entity, a zone differentiating activities, dividing one thing from another. Thats a word. We're often asked, Ar! but that only works for english, how about other languages?  How about Wort od geat as in est. but thats too easy. Lets take something totally different lets take the words from the latin and the logos from the greeks. Anybody who says the german word wort its obviously the word word. We'll take two other words and see why other peoples use other words.

Now every word is used inside a psychological context of the mind of the user. The greeks were essentially rational.


The Romans were essentially men of power. So when they are talking about the means whereby something shall be ordered. The romans prefer a power word and the greeks prefer a rational word.

Now we'll turn this one -- look-- 'VER' there really is an old root of power it becomes VER in virility, its to be a man, power, genital power. Ver is a latin termination for a substance. This MEr  is the  container, the beak, powerhouse substance. This is why Jacob suma says latin is the language of the power man. And only concerned with dominion domain, they want power, the greeks want reason. The issue, the total issue of the log. There's our log.


Just as simple as this. There's a little log. That log rolls. And out of the fact that it rolls came the wheel. Out of the wheel came the lever. So out of this log, the issue of all the log came the wheel, the lever. Now all of the principals of mechanics. The whole of the principals of logic, which is torquea logic that is cyclic S=P=S which is logic. So the greeks called it that log stuff that goes round and round by means of which we leaver propositions. Lever means to expend little force for to get big results. To lift with little energy expenditure.

With that radius we have a lever, with that rim we have a wheel. All modern inventions all modern western science spring out of Greek logic, in the theoretical side.


And it will still spring more out of it, modern and borrowed, more and more and more for the Greek. Because the Greek rational analytical mind had a word for it, for every concept whereas the latin words are routed in power and the greek are routed in form, in the logical form. So you see here that it doesn't really matter what language we take at all. Lets take the french word.... here are two french words for word. Now notice the difference. This is more and its the reverse of the good english tongue. It actually means a word thats not rationally considered, its just a word.

But this parole, which you see by the Prrrrrr  of parsial as parisians


and Paris from Troy the Torah brought with then this parole is a rational word . So in the gospel of John when it says in the english 'in the beginning was the word, in the french it does not say 'in the beginning was the 'mot' because that would not be rational, it says this parole, This is the parole, the great rational function. The greek says the logos, the french says parole, we say word the orderly principle. But this principle does not mean that at all, it means the irrational. Up springs like myths see here its the same word in the greek isn't it? Take the O out and change it to that Y form which in any case and you see ??????  and you see that this word is time, backwards, or the plant time and Tom is our old friend the doubter.


He's a doubter because he's always splitting his sperm because he' never sure which side his bread is buttered on. There's a peculiar impulse in man that tends to make him propagate when he feel's insecure. Instead of the man in general propagating because he feel's secure he tends to do it because he's insecure. There is a man and he has inside him seven seeds, they are differentiations. Why should he differentiate unless he believes he is finite. If he's infinite he's omnipotent. If he's omnipotent , why bother to protect himself? He feels finite, so he divided himself. He then shoots out seeds all over the place, if you don't watch him, and sets up little friends all over which he hopes  will do as they are told but they never do.


He hopes that they will ad they born out of the same daddy, keep going like this, so the whole confusion grows more and more. So this tendency to propagate the kind really comes out of a kind of fear. And fear means differentiating force, a force to differentiate.

One of the very ancient indian myths says that god was all alone and then he feared and this fear caused a rippling to go through him and broke up into the universe. He was afraid of being alone. The hebrew bible says the same thing about Adam. It's not good for man to be alone, all one, because there is no relation in absolute unity. To make a relationship we must cut the unity in half, turn the two halves back to back and build up a relationship and a complete lack of unity.


Just like a man and his wife. The idea is to be like that, face to face as the Rabi say. But when it is cut they tend to get their round parts together and their flat parts apart so they don't understand each other any more. They keep banging the round parts together and the reverberations which they all misinterpret. And so the misunderstanding goes on and  meanwhile they shoot out more protégée in all directions to multiply the problem which is saying P to the  Nth to the S.

So you see how interrelated these things are and how what language you take. Any word in any language will take you back to the fundamental concept of the nation using it. And if you put the psychological type of the nation using the word as the frame of reference and then put the word in it

you'll be able to derive the meaning of the word. On the other hand, if you have a word and you know the language source of it you know the psychology of the people who use that word.


The fact that the french believe themselves to be intellectual causes them to be called french. This is derived from pirance, the pi ratio essence again. They believe that allemande means war man, earth breaker man. He calls himself Deutsch,  clear,  Deutsch'ly I am very, clear, i'm what i'm thinking. Other people call him Bosh, he's what he thinks, not so clear. So each word has a name for every other nation and every nation has a word for itself, and there's a frame of reference for every word, and when you put the word back into its own frame of reference you know the psychology of the people


And when you see the word for one nation by another nation as such you know the attitude of the first nation to the second.

Lets look at the word 'Fool' as an example.  There's fool, change that to the  poor N of the hebrew and you get a simple sound change from F to P both labels. Shift that to the double LL the poll of the greeks we have exactly same concept. That's english, thats hebrew, thats greek and it all means the same thing 'polluted'. But the pi-law is in it the poor element the puller poormice. The pilaw means the rational process which led to the downfall because the rational process because obsurres the sentient purity of the soul.


There isn't a mystic in Europe or India or China that doesn't say we must transcend the rational process. Because there's an inherent dichotomy in S=P. So the rational process cannot help us towards unity. It can only show what rubbish there is in the rational process. So if somebody gives you a rational process that doesn't say S=P=S. You can apply the rational process to prove they bare talking nonsense because they are saying is S=S and P is merely predication.

The purpose of reasoning is to eliminate errors and at it's highest point the intellect, here, is to give directives, nothing else. Directives to the volition of the hearer.


We don’t discuss, in order to discuss, discuss means to strike, dis-cuss. You strike two together and they break, thats analysis. We don’t discuss in order to break things in bits. We make statements in order to bias the will towards unity. The will is already in the external world biased towards disintegration because millions of forces are acting upon it. From advertising, from radio, from sensual stimuli, the whole structure of the external world is battling against us to reduce our unity.

Therefore the legitimate use of language in its highest aspect is simply to give a directive to the will

in the direction of unity. And therefore whenever a word comes to you we should say to ourselves ' does this help my unity, and if it doesn't then I don’t want it'.


Does it fit in? It doesn't matter what it is, can you fit it in? If you cant fit it in at all push it out. Don't say it's a bad word say it won't fit for the time being. Sometime later on it may fit.

It you get an idea and it won't fit and you can't make it fit you have done a very peculiar thing to yourself which will ultimately not much good. { new drawing sheet}

Supposing there is a mind, and inside the mind you have a system of ideas integrated. That represents the intellect. I'll draw a very little hole in the middle for the soul of that person because it is nearly obscured by the intellectual process. I'm now going to cause the soul to push out and throw an accent – here.


And the stimulus comes from outside and throws int this a triangle. So that triangular reverberation goes all through the mind like this where it keeps building up. There it is, building triangles all over.

It triangulates the mind. It actually fascinates the consciousness. At the mind level it's trianguality. Some catatonics they fixed on an idea and they come up with god, just one idea.

If we are to release ourselves from that one idea we must find another idea. Supposing we found another triangle and put it next to it- like that- then another one – then another – then another- and then another and find that six equilateral triangles make a circle. We have escaped from the mear triangularity. You see that when you begin to add these fundamental geometrical concepts together


we are escaping the limitations of identification with the parts. The purpose of integration is escape from finite determination. So if we add all the forms up, instead of a little wiggle like that with no friends, which is a ground of schizophrenia of independent activity of some brain cell. Instead of that happening if we begin to analyse this into the various forms. We can do this with a pair of compasses and discover they are all stuck I side a large circle. I did this with a pair of compasses on one occasion, in fact I can do it now in a minute. And when we do so we begin to recognise the fundamental of all forms is the circle of circumscription. It no longer frightens us, we have a master concept. All forms are circumscriptions


The type of circumscription is the circle. Therefore the circle is our dominant yantra, the supreme symbol for comprehending. Every circle that we know of in existence of the existential circle has parts to be parted. It's parted by force so we put the vertical in. But the force parts it also in it's matter so we put the horizontal in. There is our master concept, the cross and the circle. When we see it and think about the relationships in it, realise what a right-angle is. It is an angle that is neither falling to the right no the left. A right-angle does not fall it does not incline, it is upright and the earth line horizontal here. There is no fall whatever in the right-angle. Therefore the man who identifies with the right-angle has the right angle in himself. And he will not fall.


If you can remember this, the right angle, - here we are.- there's a masonic device, there's another one down there.. and we put the compass on top of it to remind us that there is a circle. They’ve taken out the instruments of drawing this, the compass and the square – you see - and made it into a symbol of that. All they've done is to change the symbol to that so they can make a little closed group. See their symbol and interpret the reversed symbol behind it. Most of them do not know what that represents mainly that because the symbol is fascinating them. Now the object of the symbol is to throw you back to a high unity all the time. And ultimately when you've got your pure unity you put the alms on top. The only reason this unity exists is because the absolute has rotated a zone of force


So that add to my essence, although I an in being as to a soul essence i'm eternal and infinite . When we put a diagram and call it a Yantra we are affirming a motion of the law. And if we allow the diagram to speak to us and act upon our minds. This is a process similar to ???

{tape change?}

Can go round and out the only thing enclosed the space. What is the nature of the enclosed space as opposed to the space outside here? What is the meaning of the line that leads in and the line that leads out? This is called discursive reasoning or mentation.


When you have exhausted the discursive process you hold simultaneously the fruits of the discursive process. Look at the  yantra ?????? . at a certain point it clicks point.  The whole process  of discursive reasoning synthesises. This is the moment the when the whole significance of the diagram suddenly springs into you and you feel a force coming in your head working down the body. Suddenly you feel like that yourself. And from that moment what ever comes to you you will now is a stimulus coming in and going round and if you don’t stop it, going out as a form of a reaction. If it goes out without consideration you have lost energy. If you can cause the thing to go in and stay in a little bit it will work for you. Now if you can cause it to never come out into the external world. Now I will have to go off a spectre diagram with this one.


Now Audy Murphy spectre diagram i'll draw round it a spectre plane so you can see. Imagine this is a plane board, this is the diagram drawn on it. The usual way for the stimulus to come in and the reaction to go out like a knee-jerk. If we can cause the energy to go inside, force it more and more to the centre by saying what this gross stimulus means in terms of subtle form. Idea is in relation to the soul. Freedom. It goes straight out of the plane of manifestation and substantially or super-substantially it gets out of the plane of manifestation but only providing you drive it in and allow it no material expression. And yet you must not repress it in the psychological sense.


It must not become unconscious. You must slide it in and in keeping hold of it until it flits out at right angles to the point of manifestation and you then realise spirit. Thats 'RL' in realise. Remember 'R' is differentiation, 'L' is link factor. The different, the similar to realise is actually to see the differences in the similar, and the similarity in the difference. When you realise in that way you will see that everybody, no  matter who they are or what they are, from the prad to the narcissistic source something like that. They are all identical. They have no difference at all in any way whatever. And yet all identities are absolutely dissimilar.


Every 'R' is 'L' and every 'L' is 'R'. every difference is identical and every identity is different. And the difference is a difference of stress, and the identity is essence. So the 'L' represents the essential identity. And the 'R' represents the manifest differences. So the 'L' , lets make it a big 'L'. theres the 'L' or the name of God. Or feng shui link factor. Now the rour the 'R' and the closed 'H' which means stuck in Scottish law. The rour is itself this 'R'. the link factor and the differentiation factor. But the differentiation is simply a mode of the absolute identity.


There is no difference whatever absolutely. Essentially. There is every difference actually. And we have to look at things two ways simultaneously. There is absolutely no essential difference and in manifestation there is every difference, so we are all absolutely manifested unique. But essentially there is no difference.

So to talk about the Gan and the Fin. The aim of man to become brilliant and perfect, and the fool goose is really to talk about the same thing. The goose is the fool and the fool  is the wise man . The 'fl' in fool follows and the pilas the palas. The prince of reason is the same. Unless you’re a fool you will not become reasonable. The careful man who makes no mistakes makes no improvement.


So if you take a mistake, you cant make a deliberate mistake. Its impossible to be deliberate and not make a mistake. When you make a mistake, if you examine it it will turn you into a wise man. You should always be glad of your mistake because it showed you the limits of your knowledge. But you cant make a deliberate one.  

{ long pause}

{ Question}

Did you intend the idea of extending the field of consciousness? Do you intend it to be taken literally as an experiment which one can make”

{Halliday} Yes

{ Question}

This'll be a naive question to the group no doubt but  i'm not so well acquainted with your terminology, but where does this famous astral body fit into this business?


{ Halliday} Thats a very much abused term, {yes}, obviously the word itself is the same as sidereal body {yes} And very very often the Theosophists use it as if were a body of desires. [yes} A body of desires. But then they differentiate between lower and higher astral. And the sidereal body is the body of form. In its lowest aspect the forms are stimuli causing desires.


 Suppose we say that the stars are as we know them to be sending their light to us. The spectrum analysis shows that all the stars are chemically different. That chemistry involves in earth life and becomes formal determinance of body tendencies. Every chemical injected into a body produces a formal change in the mind or subtle body because the subtle body is itself matter although fine. Now let us take light, photons, as fine matter. Therefore starlight is form coming to us. That is sunlight as the sun is a star. We know that millions of tons of chemicals are arriving on earth in the form of light waves. Those light waves are evolved into earth and into plants by photosynthesis.


The chemistry of the plant is then changed, the animal and the man eat these things and become determined by it so the total formal content of the stars added together and considered as a body is decided in your body. Which we call astral body misunderstand and divide into higher and lower. We talk about the animal desires of the astral body and confuse the terminology. Every chemical has two aspects a formal aspect and a stimulus value. The stimulus aspect would be called the lower astral  or desire body. Thats only an aspect of the reality and it's other aspect the formal one which produces an idea. In medieval terminology we would find a star is a thought which isn't a poetical metaphor, it's a statement about the chemistry of light.


involving itself with bodies on earth and conditioning thought processes. Because every chemical is a stimulant formally. We can analyse them today with an electron microscope. We can show that the forms of all the elements are peculiar to each other and that the absorption of elements is the absorption of form . And the taking in of that form is taking in not only that form but also stimuli on the desire nature. So if we talk about the idea aspect, the sidereal body and the lower aspect, desire, reaction to the stimulus. That will be because of our history. The important thing about it is to realise why in very early Canada they were terribly careful about dying they would only eat those things that had the form, the signature of where they wanted to get.


In primitive times if a man wanted the coat of a lion he killed a lion and eat it. If he wanted the intelligence of a native chief down the road he cut his head off  took his brains out and stewed his brains and eat them. Now it wasn’t all that ghoulish. Modern dietary principals still say if you want to think clearly you need a vitamin. Its exactly the same statement disguised in new terms. If you want to line vitally you need a vitamin. If you want to catch a new spouse you need a vitamin. Whatever you do you need something thats vital. Something thats alive and its formula is the correct stimulus for your purpose.

So if you want to become very calm you deliberately avoid irritative foods. If you don’t want to be poly-erotic you keep off the spanish fly. If you do want to become that then you take it, it depends on your purpose and where you want to get. If you're aiming at a balanced mind you do deliberately take balancing foods.


Ultimately when you have got your balance perfect you can dissimulate the whole  universe and it wouldn’t matter what you took. But until you have got it you should take balancing things. And all these are coming primarily in the form of light involving themselves in the earth in plants and animals. And the body inside man derives from the sidereal source is the one referred to as the astral body. These two aspects form idea and desire, motivation.

Theosophical jargon is in a hopeless mess about the astral body: I think there are dozens and dozens of books written by ladies at a loose end, on the astral body and about the wonderful things ??  simple because they are careless about terms. And yes its absolutely necessary to be clear about terms. Because if you have an experience and cannot formulate it to yourself you don’t know your next directive.


{Question}     Is what you say related in any way to continual dilution of substances with beyond?

{Halliday}      Yes.     What he is trying to do is give you a safe form. One that just provokes you, not too much to disturb your balance but sufficient to put you on guard. So you can decide what you are going to reject. Infinitesimal dose. The hyropath says give them a big bang and the whole body will react and try to do something about it in a short term. The homeopath says we don’t mind taking longer so therefore we're going to be more gentle.  It's the same with the evolution of consciousness. If you give yourself big shocks you become wise quicker but you may be very broken up in the process.


If you want to keep your form fairly intact, you have to go slowly. If you'r not prepared to watch how man reacts himself then you wont understand certain things in yourself. Can you say something rude without blushing? It's not a statement about the company its about your attitude to the company and your hidden coiled up responses. You can't know unless you test yourself.and every man should devise his own test as he wants to go at his own rate.

{Question} when you refer to the ferris wheel and the cycle of life, the coming and going, do you come back very close to this little yod in the field?

{Halliday} Yes.


{Question}     I thought it seemed as though we were coming to it from another direction.

{Halliday}      There's an indian saying: Your soul is as big as your thumb. Astrologically the Sun pertains to Venus and Venus pertains to desire in its passive aspect. The soul is said to be passive to the infinite forces above it. It takes its infinite orders and then it involves itself in matter and becomes passive to matter for a time. The soul is as big as your thumb and the thumb is a pusher. A puce. Its fulicient. Desire is the after motion of fulicium. So a mans soul is exactly as big as his willpower. No bigger and no smaller


And thats the same as the unicorn. The point of initiation. So they used to direct the man there and let the man die. Its punse is entirely phallic in shape, it represents that same fundamental creative force.

One of the worst things they used to do to wilful people was hang them up by their thumbs. Very unpleasant, worse than hanging by up your middle finger because there are more nerves in the thumb than the rest of the hand put together. T feels awful. Get hold of your own thumb and you'l start screaming to be let loose.

{Question}     Am I correct in assuming that the circle with the cross in the centre is the same as from which has been constructed the astrological, yes, the astrological symbology.

{Halliday} Yes


We haven’t time now but perhaps on another occasion we can go through the astrological symbology.

It's absolutely coherent. This represents the cardinal points. This is fire, water, air, earth. Thats the gross material body. The water one represents the fluids of the body and the feeling line. The air symbolises the intellectual line. And the fire the nervous line, the nervous energy. The cardinal points are hinge points and represent undifferentiated nervous energy, undifferentiated feeling, undifferentiated in connection. Undifferentiated absorption of matter.  And each one moves in a triangle. So the  differentiated nervous energy moves from the ram to leo.


Which is the first organization of the undifferentiated  as volition, nervous will. That moves to the mutable Sagittarian position where it can be either differentiated or not at will. Leo type always wants to establish his will because he's only just started doing it. So he cannot afford to go back into the Aries position because he hasn’t yet established himself. When he gets into this position he doesn't care whether he is there or there. He completely shrouded in  nervous energy. The cancer type feels in a very vague undefined way. Then it moves to Scorpio which attaches itself with great zeal. The Scorpio is the tremendously zealous and never lets go of a problem once he's decided it's his. Then it passes to Pisces which is mutable again. And the Pisces is sometimes vague like the Cancer type and sometimes bounces onto a thing like the Scorpio type.


Then we come to the air position, Libra is perception. All perceptions whatever. Then there is the gathering of perceptions together in Aries, in Aquarius as memory. The establishment of perception in the memory. Then it goes to Gemini which is the reason, or mutable again which looks at the perceptions and at the memory all together. Looks into the external world and into the memory to recognise it. Re-cognize, refit it together. Then the earth sigh undifferentiated absorption of matter. Then it goes into Taurus, the secretion of matter in the granular system. Then into Virgo, the circulation of the chemicals secreted in the body.


And again this is a mutable position, it can either secrete or absorb in the circulation process.

Then of course added to that the seven planetary symbols. And then the mutations of all these together and the permutations of the forces become very complex.

But given the position of the man at birth his major characteristics as to his  physical behaviour  and the behaviour of his mind which is also material though fine can be mapped out with very very great accuracy. The only thing you cannot predict is the soul simply because it has no parts. It is free and is therefore not predictable. But as most people are not soul conscious but only mind or body conscious they are predictable. So the non-predictables are the souls. The soul conscious.


It is actually a complete Calvinist symbology. It tells exactly the same truths you find in other systems but in a very very coherent way. Jupiter means expansion, Saturn is contraction, Mercury is rotation, the product of the two, Venus is passive desire, Mars is active. Pair. The Sun is radiating energy, the Moon is absorbing and reflecting. Thats non-pair we have three pairs and an odd one the odd one is Mercury which means rotation of the whole thing.

The whole process is in the body in so far as they are dependant on rotation. On circulation of the body, circulation of nervous energy are Mercurial processes  in similar mercurial is quick one      Mercury is the roman name for messiah. The Hermes , Egyptian Taht, hebrew messiah are all similar terms in different psychological references.


For the one fact the consciousness that compiled the whole phenomena very very quickly and retained the synthetic significance of all.

Saturn is Satan the devil. Jupiter is Ju pater, god the father. The universe is the product of the opposition between the two. Between the  absolutely free Jupiter and the absolutely bound Saturn, the gross matter. And between the two light appears as an interrelating function.

There's more rubbish written about astrology , actually, than about any other single subject when it's a very coherent system.


{ indecipherable comments}

The major statement about the four which is awake in england and it says morning. Lucifer is called the star of the morning isn't he?. “Oh Lucifer thy bright star of the morning”. Awake for morning, that's lucifer. In the bowl of night, thats negation is from the stone, that's the material world. That put the stars, thats the pre-fall formative principals to fight.


And the hunter of the east, that's the internal east, the mystical east where your soul lives. The lone hunt of the east, the sun, your will, your illumination. Has caught the sultans turret. The sultan is the sul tan, soul fire, solar-fire. Tu-rant , tourett, law toure in a noose in light. The whole of it is subject to analysis metaphysically in the same way.

{Question}     He seems to like both ways. One way seems to be “eat drink and be merry for  tomorrow we may die”. And at other time he seems to refer to something beyond death and origins and so forth.

{Halliday}      Its dialectics. Those who cannot see the truth let then eat and drink, because they'll be dead tomorrow. Those who can see who flung the stone, who flung stone and stay on the change point, they can get out of it.


But not everybody can get out. If everybody got out the universe would disappear. Because the universe is Maya its a formal plane kept in being by interesting souls. If we all got out it would all disappear and god would have to start again. And that would be terrible.

{Question}     Can we briefly go back to one of the previous questions concerning the astral body.


 {Yes} I was not thinking in so much in its theosophical connection but in relation to what you talked about tonight, I recall Gurdjieff once having once remarked that it was a very expensive luxury and I was wondering I I could find some explanation for myself for that saying in your..

{Halliday} Rendition... He was saying lets take the sidereal, the astral body as properly formed, a real body of star form, of cosmic form. Back to cosmic form. And its very expensive to get it. You can only get it by tremendous pain. You can only get thought by suffering, there's no other way, pleasure will not give it. Therefore its expensive and then when you've got it you have to throw it away. It's a luxury. It's not an essential.

It's like Plotinus  says, you have to become purely reasonable, and then you must throw the ball away. But the soul doesn't need it but it thinks it does up and till the time it is integrated it.  Plotinus is very clear in that you know. Incredibly clear. One of the clearest writers in europe.


The ball of reason has got to be seized before you can throw it away. It's elementary logic. A person who is irrational tries to throw reason away can't. He's below it. He cant throw away what he hasn't got. And as long as he is sub rational he is determined by forces below and above. If he climbed up to the point of understanding that cross in the circle, exactly what it means, thats his ball. Thats the bauble off my goblin the princes to fool them in the fairy tale. The bobble universe, the expanding universe of the astronomers.



End of Tape